Unfortunately translations are and always will be a thorny problem. The only person that could fully do justice to a translation would be the original poet; if he or she had linguistic fluency. That means much of the translated work that is seen here and elsewhere is, in fact, new poetry. True it is based very closely on the original piece but it might lack the depth of feeling, the nuances of language or the rhythm and metre of the original since it is restricted by the same limitations of any translational activity. The range of experiences, historical and cultural that produce one language are never exactly matched by the experiences that produced another language and so the actual languages do not precisely match.
The result is either a translation retaining the mood and perceived intent of the poet concerned or a translation that follows strict literal rather than literary guidelines. In general we at Oldpoetry try to use the former approach. We rely on the skilled efforts of our hard-pressed translation team augmented by occasional contributions from our readers.
From time to time readers will naturally take issue with translations of their favourite poets or poems and will contribute their own thoughts on the particular piece. Provided this is done in an open and non-combative manner, this can only enhance matters and is welcomed.
It would be marvellous to increase our translation efforts but that requires time that our hard-pressed volunteers cannot always give. Since we all have other jobs and activities in the real world time pressures are always with us. It would help tremendously if we could find other supporters with linguistic skills to support the work already being done.
Is there anyone out there with the time and skill to contribute?
There is a whole world of poetry out there and a whole world of potential readers. I am conscious that we are not reaching vast areas of that target audience since we post work, predominantly, in English. True we do have a smattering of other languages on offer as well as translations of some of the more prominent non-English poems.
But we do not have enough.
But we do not have enough.
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Tanslation-in french
It is true that some nuances can't be translated but then the nuances in one language aren't those in another. I translate from french to english, very rarely the other way, simply because I am Engliwh and I have a better judgement of what the poet would say were he english and also, with older poems a better idea of language usage t the time they were written. I would be happy to translate any french poems you might wish (one at at time please). Somebody mentioned copyright. Is copyright of a translation automatic when published on a website? Does somebody know?
The translations I have seen in english on OP seem to think that we say things in the same way in both languages. To see what I mean look up on the net translations of english proverbs for instance, they usually bear no resemblance to ours since the points of reference are different in different cultures. I have worked in meetings in the EC where there are first rate interpreters but I doubt if any of them could translate a poem as it was being read. Perhaps those who are like minded could get together and eventually improve our translations? My golden rules are as follows:
Find out what you can about the poet in his historical context and artistic context.
Never read any translation before you do yours
Keep away from babelfish!
Don't be bound by words use the expressions we would use
Decide which you might have to sacrifice a word or two metre rhyme precision we sometimes can't have them all
Try to summarize/paraphrase the poem in a four line stanza or other short verse not worrying about the original too much in order to get the sense
Do it for each verse too.
Then get to work! -
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Hi LC,
Your translation policy does seem very efficient and I would enjoy reading some of your efforts. As you imply in what you say here the translation is in effect a new poem based on the original (and keeping as close to the original writers intentions as the language allows) and since it is a new poem it is the copyright of the translator not the original poet.
I am not a lawyer but I believe a properly date-stamped posting on the internet authenticated with your legal name is a declaration of ownership for copytight purposes. Perhaps the mods on Allpoetry could answer that better.
If you have some translations from French to English you would be willing to share then please feel free to send me an IM either as i-like-rhymes or as Old Poetry, thry are both me
I will arrange posting here (with due credit) though I suggest you also post them on OP as well for the copyright trick to work.
Jim
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Translating poetry is my profession...
I work mainly from Ukrainian and Belarusian.
Obviously I cannot let you have any of my as-yet-unpublished versions; if, however, you would be interested in using some of the published versions, please contact me.
Vera Rich -
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Transaltion offer
Your offer is a generous one and, if the poets concerned are appropriate candidates for inclusion here, then we would be interested. It is always good to extend the range of poems available for others to share.
Please feel free to contact me via IMs here at Oldpoetry or via my email.
Jim
Oldpoetry Team Leader
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my latin isn't amazing, but i can give it a go ^_^ its really not amazing in fact, but when armed with three english-latin dictionaries, i'll give it my best shot.
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Ordinarily I would be apprehensive about transalting via-dictionaries preferring the efforts of a fluent speaker of the languages concerned. However as latin is a "dead" language fluent speakers are a rare commodity.
I would be happy to see some of your efforts on the work of the ancients that we do not yet have versions of.
Jim
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I think the way you posted the last ones is good, but just one page with both original and translation, and maybe the original showing first.
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I just had a thought- sit down in front of people (actors) from the poet's culture 'playing out' the poem while it is being read aloud, so the emotions, interactions, ideas, rhythms, and rhymes can be felt... and from a basic translation in hand create something poetic...
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That would be nice
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Are we displaying the Translations in the right way? Should they be above / below or seperate from the original poem? Should they have their own page and title?
What do you think -
Hey
Hello, my native tongue es Spanish so I can help with translation from that area. I can also help by submitting poetry from Hispanic poets.
Mila
MOD MESSAGE
Thanks Mila.
You have been added to the Oldpoetry and Friends Group now and can submit translations and other items that way if you wish.
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